papacerberus: (Exchange of ideas.)
Lupa ([personal profile] papacerberus) wrote in [community profile] synopsychic2017-11-27 09:40 pm

Towards the end of Drive-In Liminal

At this point, there are some things we can confirm that have happened. Somehow the last Jaunt ended in a tie, and that Lovers was returned because of it. Before this, I briefly spoke on my belief that a single Arcana winning this game is not the best outcome, but I was unsure of the possibility of encouraging ties, and bringing back those who’ve been eliminated.

Now that both of those things have been confirmed, I think it’s time to open the discussion again.

My thoughts are this: That the Arcana are all important in their own ways, and for a truly balanced world, they should all be reflected equally. There are obstacles to this in that some of them have been killed, but Emperor confirmed that completing the game will bring the dead back. There are also obstacles in the fact that the Arcana themselves don’t seem aware or willing to consider the possibility of joint wins. Of course, to succeed, we would need to find a way to alter the rules, and gain the cooperation of at least one of the Arcana.

That last point I think should be the first step, but before I proceed, I wanted to hold a discussion. There may be things I’ve missed, or don’t have the experience to properly understand, and coming together to share ideas will make us stronger and more cohesive for it.
itsananimalthing: (thinking)

[personal profile] itsananimalthing 2017-11-28 03:20 am (UTC)(link)
They're aware of the possibility. They just don't want it. We were lucky this time-- if you can call it that-- because Hermit and Death chose things they wanted in order to win that could both happen at the same time. That ain't always gonna be the case.

Not that there ain't somethin' to talk about, here, but don't expect the possibility of a tie all that often. Don't think they were exactly happy with this outcome.
itsananimalthing: (Default)

[personal profile] itsananimalthing 2017-11-28 05:28 pm (UTC)(link)
If you wanna try, go for it, just don't be surprised if you don't get anybody except maybe one or two to agree, probably those one or two who already just did it. And one or two ain't gonna be enough.

Which two did you talk to?
itsananimalthing: (thinking)

[personal profile] itsananimalthing 2017-11-28 07:10 pm (UTC)(link)
Justice might surprise you. Emperor, maybe not, I ain't met him. But Justice is all about truth and clear thought, she might be able to understand, even if she don't agree.

[Says the guy who just met her on accident.]

There's other things these guys want than just bringing their dead back, though. They got enemies, and they got plans. You gotta convince them to put aside those things if they're gonna do this. Best options to start with would be these two. Death and Hermit.

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theflyingone: no eye contact for you (looking)

[personal profile] theflyingone 2017-11-28 03:42 am (UTC)(link)
Play to what they call their 'idioms'. They will side with their theme. They know no other way to live. Of course, they are open to interpretation, so this is dubious at best. And, it may be that even thought your idea matches their beliefs, one may still think that they are the only one who can carry them out if they win.
theflyingone: they're everywhere (air ass templar)

[personal profile] theflyingone 2017-11-28 06:41 am (UTC)(link)
There is always a solution, but it might not be one you'd like to entertain.

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otomechapilot: (:awed)

[personal profile] otomechapilot 2017-11-28 05:29 am (UTC)(link)
...Honestly that's what I've been thinking.

Each Arcana, like in the cards, is a different part of growing up, right? Each is a step on the journey. You need all of them at different times.

Somehow I think that it would be a big win for Fool if everyone won.
ninjayeehaw: (eh)

[personal profile] ninjayeehaw 2017-11-29 12:55 am (UTC)(link)
There's four or so 'f us all marked by him, we could all just start yellin' at our Marks fer a while.

[It had worked for Yakumo just earlier]

The problem with Fool is, he ain't so good at givin' straight answers. S'pose that's part of his thing, mind you, the Fool don't got any. He's full a' questions an' set t'go explorin' the world, 's'why he's the first step in the tarot.

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otomechapilot: (Default)

[personal profile] otomechapilot 2017-11-29 04:51 am (UTC)(link)
Even Devil is the id, right? Lizard brain stuff. Having kids, eating, fighting to live. It's bad in the cards and as a living idea or as the winner here because it's lizard brain stuff without human brain stuff along with it, not because it's not important.
fridgeninja: (into the distance)

[personal profile] fridgeninja 2017-11-28 06:27 am (UTC)(link)
If we do the math, either Lovers isn't the only one back, or they'll need to add another loser back in later, or they'll need to have a three-way Jaunt. Tournament brackets have to be in exponents of two.

So, if we want an Arcana to cooperate with us, we should start with one that's already lost, or that's closely allied to one who's lost.
fridgeninja: (gleep)

[personal profile] fridgeninja 2017-11-28 07:12 pm (UTC)(link)
I could try to talk to her about that. She likes me.

But she likes me the way that you like a doll or a model on a shelf. You wouldn't put yourself on a doll's side, or take an agreement with a toy battleship seriously. It would just be a game where you were the only person eho mattered.

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comebewe: (Annoyed 6)

[personal profile] comebewe 2017-12-01 10:32 am (UTC)(link)
We do not agree.

Every tie risks bringing back Devil, or Tower. Perhaps that risk would be acceptable if we could have confidence in your 'plan' succeeding. But there's absolutely nothing to suggest that it even has the slightest hope of doing so. You'd be risking a universe run by Devil for the slim, minuscule chance that you will somehow manage to alter fundamental goal of a game designed to result in one winner - one, not two, or three, or seven-bloody-teen. You risk our lives, and the lives of everyone else in the entire multi-verse, just because you think that the Arcana deserve equal share in divvying it up between them in their big cosmic game.

Which brings me to the real problem. Your basic premise, your core assumption, your very goal, is flawed. You assume that they are necessary. That we need them to be doing their mystic reflecting thing in order to have a nice fluffy universe to live in. But Star is dead, and the concept of hope lives on. Temperance is gone, but there is still balance and harmony to be found in the world. The universe can apparently continue on functioning without them just fine. So why, then, do any of the Arcana need to have the World - let alone all of them?
awitchdidit: (washed his hands and sealed his fate)

[personal profile] awitchdidit 2017-12-03 03:23 am (UTC)(link)
If we keep aiming for ties, this game will never end. You'd have to convince the entire lot of them to abandon the enterprise and play cooperatively. I've seen enough of this sort of game to convince me that that would be a miracle beyond all miracles.

It would certainly seem to make a more "fair" world, one were no aspect was dominant over any other, but honestly, I could make a new universe from scratch by myself by throwing sand into empty space a handful at a time before I expect a set of god-like beings to do that.
thornsofmalkav: (chinhands)

[personal profile] thornsofmalkav 2017-12-04 12:33 pm (UTC)(link)
Honestly, I'm with Bea. It's a nice thought, Lupa, but that's not how godlike creatures generally work.
awitchdidit: (allow me to introduce myself)

[personal profile] awitchdidit 2017-12-15 04:28 pm (UTC)(link)
I do, however, agree with the principle of working with a particular Arcanum, although getting all us mortals to agree on which one it should be is only a couple of orders of magnitude less difficult than the other ideas. Getting mortals to cooperate to produce a miracle just seems more feasible than getting gods to.
thornsofmalkav: (Default)

[personal profile] thornsofmalkav 2017-12-19 02:44 pm (UTC)(link)
As someone who has been a god on a Jaunt, I can verify this to be hella true.